Comments on: total agreement in process

by: millimon

Sat, 31 Jul 2004 08:48:09 +0000

I love that term, Phallocentric. I’ve often wondered IS IT sexist, just because men have done it in the past, and women have not often participated? Is all writing really masculinist UNLESS written by a woman? Your Essay is humorous, insightful, and points out some of the problems in our society, for no matter how advanced we consider ourselves, we still attack the outsiders. Only now, the outsider is male. That’s not equality.

I really appreciated and enjoyed your post. Thank you. I would love to read a follow-up, a tongue-not-so-in-cheek essay on HOW to write ‘phallocentrically.’ I’d probably injure myself laughing. ^_+

Mil

by: kidorhi

Wed, 21 Jul 2004 08:16:43 +0000

I’m still navigating these waters in a remote kind of way, since I’ve never had an out-and-out relationship. I still have yet to even go on a date or kiss anyone. But, like you, I know what types of interactions make me light up and what I can see myself doing easily and joyfully.

I’m not attracted to masculinity. I admire the way others wear it, maybe borrow from their versions, but it doesn’t get me hot. And I’m pretty out of the loop when it comes to more traditional boy-meets-girl stuff. Sure, there’s a bit of that in the butch-femme dynamic I’m coming to be very comfortable with, but it’s not the same.

I’m expecting that my future girlfriend will appreciate this chivalry. I also gather that to a certain degree, she may demand a basic level of it, as a femme with a butch. That’s fine with me. I don’t have any good outlets for it right now, but I practice things when I can. Walking on the curb side of the sidewalk, opening doors, taking at least the heaviest bags if there are multiple ones, walking women to their cars at night, etc.

Chivalry with a guy can probably be done, but that’s where our paths of interest separate =)

I’m going back to CA. Only time I ever lived in HI was when I was born, but that’s my twin brother’s permanent duty station, I think, and I’d like to go visit him sometime.

LOL I’ve already got one mainly-internet friend who is all over the globe. He and I may finally be in one place long-term, and possibly get an apartment together. We’re not sure the world won’t end if we do actually manage to show up in the same city at the same time =)

So, you, me, dinner, whenever. Cool ;) I’ll wave back when our planes pass…

by: lacunaend

Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:17:35 +0000

I typed a big old responce then realized it had little if anything to do with your initial entry - so I posted it in my LJ and you can respond to any part of it if youd like.

o.O

and you thought your entry was rambling and speratic. hee.

by: doubleyou

Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:17:06 +0000

I think it’s annoying and sad how the culture we’re born into forces us into gender roles, and expectations. Take a really simple example: I hate sports. I’ve gotten flack for this all my life, and it somehow makes me “less masculine”. I’m also less assertive than men are expected to be. In the same vein, it seems that women are penalized (no pun intended) for being more assertive. I tend to be drawn towards that sort of woman, since it complements my less assertive nature. Though I’m not in any way advocating a total role-reversal either. It would be unfair of me to expect to never have to be assertive, and only rely on women to be so.

Yet the standards are so arbitrary too - they differer from one culture to another. What’s considered masculine in one culture is femininine in another. Assertive behaviour is considered a female quality in some cultures. And increasing our scope a bit, for some animals, it’s the female that’s the more promiscuous one, commanding a harem of males - a characteristic traditionally considered to be male, at least in humans (though this “conventional” wisdom is getting challenged lately).

On a slightly different, but not unrelated note: I’ve always found nudity to be an odd thing. Or rather, attitudes towards nudity. We usually associate nudity with sex, and clothed-ness with the lack of sex. However, it’s possible for the sight of a naked person (who’s otherwise attractive) to cause no sort of arousal, and for the sight of a fully-clothed person to be highly tittilating (sp?). The body language of the naked person could denote complete lack of interest in sex, or the clothing could strategically emphasize certain things about the form of the body. Yeah, I guess it’s all about the context in each case, but I still have trouble wrapping my brain around it.

And the other thing that bugs me about that is this prevailing notion that the female body is inherently beautiful, while the male body is a thing to be shunned. And I can’t claim to be exempt from this sort of conditioning, because I generally don’t like the sight of a naked male body, even my own to some degree.

Anyway, I’m not sure how to cap this off, so I’ll leave it at that. Just a bunch of random thoughts you spurred-on… ;-)

by: starladear6

Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:43:10 +0000

I think I’ve decided that I really like it when people are responding and reacting to something I’m talking about. I remember last time we talked in here, I mostly became frustrated because it wasn’t a conversation “on topic” with what I was talking about… that frustration came in because I was trying to address an idea that was very very specific and also a pretty tiny minute detail in social criticisim etc…

but yeah. you’re wondering if your comment is ‘related’? hell yeah. and I think what you’re talking about when you refer to “standards” is exactly what I was talking about when I talk about conventions or current social constructs etc.

You were talking about how you think that it’s kind of human nature to want to make sense of our world… find an order to everything etc. I actually think that this itself is part of the so-called “male-centered discourse” that our writing discourse comes from… not to say that I think it’s “wrong” or whatever. I just think we shouldn’t get stuck on the idea that that is all that there is.

also, in reaction to somethings you said… i am not sure what I think about the idea of ‘order’ and chaos… i don’t think I’m really qualified to know that. I think I could find patterns in everything I look at, but that has more to do with cognition and the discursive lenses we all see the world through. I really don’t think any of us could ever have direct access to “outside ourselves” and truly “know” the nature of the world. We don’t have an objective perspective no matter what we do… so we can’t realy know if what we see are actually patterns written into the fabric of the universe, or if they are only patterns because we choose to see patterns.

I think the only thing I can really believe in, when it comes to the “true nature” of the universe or the world is the idea of ‘motion’… that’s an idea that is deeper than just that word is… reading derrida taught me it and it has become almost a religious philosophy for me… more about that later if you want. :)