Comments on: Fighting the good fight. http://www.pennyhero.net/2004/02/18/fighting-the-good-fight/ Thrilling heroics at an affordable price. Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:10:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: maruchan http://www.pennyhero.net/2004/02/18/fighting-the-good-fight/#comment-1160 Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:19:26 +0000 http://www.pennyhero.net/2004/02/18/fighting-the-good-fight/#comment-1160 So to you, this is a "yeah, we did something" victory, rather than "yeah, we won?" Fair enough, that makes sense to me. I got the impression that it was the latter case... So to you, this is a “yeah, we did something” victory, rather than “yeah, we won?” Fair enough, that makes sense to me. I got the impression that it was the latter case…

]]> by: starladear6 http://www.pennyhero.net/2004/02/18/fighting-the-good-fight/#comment-1159 Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:40:41 +0000 http://www.pennyhero.net/2004/02/18/fighting-the-good-fight/#comment-1159 What I was celebrating was the fact that this is the first time such a large public act of civil disobedience (or really, isn't it "defiance"?) took place, especially with the support of the Mayor of a major city. I don't believe that "progress/change" can only be demonstrated by laws getting passed. There are things that must happen before laws can be passed, and when it comes to something like civil rights, and equality issues which go against what is "normal" every time a demonstration, or a ruling that is <i>not</i> against that cause should be celebrated as a victory. This is a victory the way that a person climbing a vertical rockface grabbing a handhold is a victory. Every step towards what I feel would be equality for all kinds of human-beings would count. And, the "attitudes" that you mention haven't really changed. Maybe the attitude and courage of the San Francisco Mayor who allowed the marriages to begin and continue... but public opinion hasn't changed much in the last 15 years or so as far as I know. But honestly, I think that public opinion or the "popular vote" should not be considered as deeply on issues related to discrimination, civil rights, etc. What I was celebrating was the fact that this is the first time such a large public act of civil disobedience (or really, isn’t it “defiance”?) took place, especially with the support of the Mayor of a major city.

I don’t believe that “progress/change” can only be demonstrated by laws getting passed. There are things that must happen before laws can be passed, and when it comes to something like civil rights, and equality issues which go against what is “normal” every time a demonstration, or a ruling that is not against that cause should be celebrated as a victory. This is a victory the way that a person climbing a vertical rockface grabbing a handhold is a victory. Every step towards what I feel would be equality for all kinds of human-beings would count.

And, the “attitudes” that you mention haven’t really changed. Maybe the attitude and courage of the San Francisco Mayor who allowed the marriages to begin and continue… but public opinion hasn’t changed much in the last 15 years or so as far as I know. But honestly, I think that public opinion or the “popular vote” should not be considered as deeply on issues related to discrimination, civil rights, etc.

]]> by: starladear6 http://www.pennyhero.net/2004/02/18/fighting-the-good-fight/#comment-1158 Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:22:03 +0000 http://www.pennyhero.net/2004/02/18/fighting-the-good-fight/#comment-1158 Why yes. Yes it is. :) And the DVD release gets sent out on March 29th, I believe. I preordered my copy 2 months in advance. :) Why yes. Yes it is. :)

And the DVD release gets sent out on March 29th, I believe. I preordered my copy 2 months in advance. :)

]]> by: pottedplant http://www.pennyhero.net/2004/02/18/fighting-the-good-fight/#comment-1157 Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:47:35 +0000 http://www.pennyhero.net/2004/02/18/fighting-the-good-fight/#comment-1157 Is that icon from "The Last Unicorn"? I loved that movie as a kid. In 5, 10, or 15 years, gay marriage will be legal. 30 years from now, we'll wonder what all the fuss was about. BTW, here's an interesting stat I ran across. In 1958, nine years before the Supreme Court said that states may not ban interracial marriages, 94% of white people thought interracial marriages were wrong. Is that icon from “The Last Unicorn”? I loved that movie as a kid.

In 5, 10, or 15 years, gay marriage will be legal. 30 years from now, we’ll wonder what all the fuss was about.

BTW, here’s an interesting stat I ran across. In 1958, nine years before the Supreme Court said that states may not ban interracial marriages, 94% of white people thought interracial marriages were wrong.

]]> by: maruchan http://www.pennyhero.net/2004/02/18/fighting-the-good-fight/#comment-1156 Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:17:33 +0000 http://www.pennyhero.net/2004/02/18/fighting-the-good-fight/#comment-1156 I don't really understand why this is being touted as a victory. To me at least, being allowed to marry is a symbol that attitudes have changed, and that GLBT people are culturally acceptable...but that's still not the case. I would totally feel your excitement if this came about as the result of actual change (due to legislation/debate/public education/God coming down out of the clouds and giving a thumbs up/whatever) but this marriage spree isn't the result of that, so much as Gavin Newsom basically saying to Bush, "hurr, your mom," and a section of the population agreeing. I mean, if you're lucky, some people will take the opportunity to see what the debate is about and maybe form opinions that you agree with...but it just doesn't seem like a real indication of social attitudes. People who agree still agree, people who don't still don't. But maybe I, unromantic and unwilling to watch Moulin Rouge as I am, am missing something here. TELL ME! Tell me what this all means! I don’t really understand why this is being touted as a victory. To me at least, being allowed to marry is a symbol that attitudes have changed, and that GLBT people are culturally acceptable…but that’s still not the case. I would totally feel your excitement if this came about as the result of actual change (due to legislation/debate/public education/God coming down out of the clouds and giving a thumbs up/whatever) but this marriage spree isn’t the result of that, so much as Gavin Newsom basically saying to Bush, “hurr, your mom,” and a section of the population agreeing. I mean, if you’re lucky, some people will take the opportunity to see what the debate is about and maybe form opinions that you agree with…but it just doesn’t seem like a real indication of social attitudes. People who agree still agree, people who don’t still don’t. But maybe I, unromantic and unwilling to watch Moulin Rouge as I am, am missing something here. TELL ME! Tell me what this all means!

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