I laugh at anyone who plays the “family values” card. That card it’s got nothing behind it but rhetoric, and nothing there would stand up to scrutiny. They can spout off their testimony, but there is ample ample evidence that gay couples are perfectly capable of having healthy “family values” based relationships and families.
It’s only a matter of time before they are forced to realize that their “family values” are not threatened by gay marriage.
remember me? This is Daniela :) Just wondering how everything’s beenn going for you. You seem to be doing really well. :) How’s Oregon treating you?
Well just thought I’d say hi. Oh by the way this is Daniela from Hawaii that you went to Waiakea with. I’m sure you probably do remember me but there is always a chance you don’t. Alright!! *hug*
Actually I think I mentioned you just the other day to a friend when I felt like bragging that I once played bass in a band that absolutely kicked ass… and stuff. :)
I still think you are one of the most talented musicians on the planet. :) do you still make music?
Awesome to hear from you! How have you been? I’ve been doing pretty ok. School, work yadda yadda. :)
Oooohh cool you remember me!!! :) Yes, our band rocked. Remember when we played Pahoa Lounge? That was cool. I’m still playing music, how about you?
I’ve been doing alright. I will be going back to Hawaii in a few months to finish up at UH cause it’s going to take me forever to graduate at Cal State since lots of my UH cerdits wouldn’t transfer. Hey, faleci on this site is indeed Alex Bob. Are you still in touch with Kahili? You should come down to Cali and we should all hang out!
I don’t really understand why this is being touted as a victory. To me at least, being allowed to marry is a symbol that attitudes have changed, and that GLBT people are culturally acceptable…but that’s still not the case. I would totally feel your excitement if this came about as the result of actual change (due to legislation/debate/public education/God coming down out of the clouds and giving a thumbs up/whatever) but this marriage spree isn’t the result of that, so much as Gavin Newsom basically saying to Bush, “hurr, your mom,” and a section of the population agreeing. I mean, if you’re lucky, some people will take the opportunity to see what the debate is about and maybe form opinions that you agree with…but it just doesn’t seem like a real indication of social attitudes. People who agree still agree, people who don’t still don’t. But maybe I, unromantic and unwilling to watch Moulin Rouge as I am, am missing something here. TELL ME! Tell me what this all means!
Is that icon from “The Last Unicorn”? I loved that movie as a kid.
In 5, 10, or 15 years, gay marriage will be legal. 30 years from now, we’ll wonder what all the fuss was about.
BTW, here’s an interesting stat I ran across. In 1958, nine years before the Supreme Court said that states may not ban interracial marriages, 94% of white people thought interracial marriages were wrong.
What I was celebrating was the fact that this is the first time such a large public act of civil disobedience (or really, isn’t it “defiance”?) took place, especially with the support of the Mayor of a major city.
I don’t believe that “progress/change” can only be demonstrated by laws getting passed. There are things that must happen before laws can be passed, and when it comes to something like civil rights, and equality issues which go against what is “normal” every time a demonstration, or a ruling that is not against that cause should be celebrated as a victory. This is a victory the way that a person climbing a vertical rockface grabbing a handhold is a victory. Every step towards what I feel would be equality for all kinds of human-beings would count.
And, the “attitudes” that you mention haven’t really changed. Maybe the attitude and courage of the San Francisco Mayor who allowed the marriages to begin and continue… but public opinion hasn’t changed much in the last 15 years or so as far as I know. But honestly, I think that public opinion or the “popular vote” should not be considered as deeply on issues related to discrimination, civil rights, etc.
So to you, this is a “yeah, we did something” victory, rather than “yeah, we won?” Fair enough, that makes sense to me. I got the impression that it was the latter case…
drdougfir | 17-Feb-04 at 11:07 pm | Permalink
however, the conservative team is trying to play the “family values” card. yeah i’ll show THEM family values!
starladear6 | 17-Feb-04 at 11:10 pm | Permalink
I laugh at anyone who plays the “family values” card. That card it’s got nothing behind it but rhetoric, and nothing there would stand up to scrutiny. They can spout off their testimony, but there is ample ample evidence that gay couples are perfectly capable of having healthy “family values” based relationships and families.
It’s only a matter of time before they are forced to realize that their “family values” are not threatened by gay marriage.
drdougfir | 17-Feb-04 at 11:28 pm | Permalink
i sure hope so
rainn9 | 18-Feb-04 at 12:23 am | Permalink
remember me? This is Daniela :) Just wondering how everything’s beenn going for you. You seem to be doing really well. :) How’s Oregon treating you?
Well just thought I’d say hi. Oh by the way this is Daniela from Hawaii that you went to Waiakea with. I’m sure you probably do remember me but there is always a chance you don’t. Alright!! *hug*
starladear6 | 18-Feb-04 at 2:33 pm | Permalink
Oh my god! yes of course I remember you!
Actually I think I mentioned you just the other day to a friend when I felt like bragging that I once played bass in a band that absolutely kicked ass… and stuff. :)
I still think you are one of the most talented musicians on the planet. :) do you still make music?
Awesome to hear from you! How have you been? I’ve been doing pretty ok. School, work yadda yadda. :)
rainn9 | 18-Feb-04 at 2:42 pm | Permalink
Oooohh cool you remember me!!! :) Yes, our band rocked. Remember when we played Pahoa Lounge? That was cool. I’m still playing music, how about you?
I’ve been doing alright. I will be going back to Hawaii in a few months to finish up at UH cause it’s going to take me forever to graduate at Cal State since lots of my UH cerdits wouldn’t transfer. Hey, faleci on this site is indeed Alex Bob. Are you still in touch with Kahili? You should come down to Cali and we should all hang out!
starladear6 | 18-Feb-04 at 11:57 pm | Permalink
I’m playing music slightly. Lately picked up guitar again. Not much improvement, not much new material, but it’s just for fun. :)
I occaisionally hear from Kahili. I’ve been meaning to call her now that I have free long distance and such… (yay cell)
We SHOULD hang out sometime. Road trips are so not impossible!
maruchan | 19-Feb-04 at 11:17 am | Permalink
I don’t really understand why this is being touted as a victory. To me at least, being allowed to marry is a symbol that attitudes have changed, and that GLBT people are culturally acceptable…but that’s still not the case. I would totally feel your excitement if this came about as the result of actual change (due to legislation/debate/public education/God coming down out of the clouds and giving a thumbs up/whatever) but this marriage spree isn’t the result of that, so much as Gavin Newsom basically saying to Bush, “hurr, your mom,” and a section of the population agreeing. I mean, if you’re lucky, some people will take the opportunity to see what the debate is about and maybe form opinions that you agree with…but it just doesn’t seem like a real indication of social attitudes. People who agree still agree, people who don’t still don’t. But maybe I, unromantic and unwilling to watch Moulin Rouge as I am, am missing something here. TELL ME! Tell me what this all means!
pottedplant | 20-Feb-04 at 5:47 am | Permalink
Is that icon from “The Last Unicorn”? I loved that movie as a kid.
In 5, 10, or 15 years, gay marriage will be legal. 30 years from now, we’ll wonder what all the fuss was about.
BTW, here’s an interesting stat I ran across. In 1958, nine years before the Supreme Court said that states may not ban interracial marriages, 94% of white people thought interracial marriages were wrong.
starladear6 | 22-Feb-04 at 7:22 am | Permalink
Why yes. Yes it is. :)
And the DVD release gets sent out on March 29th, I believe. I preordered my copy 2 months in advance. :)
starladear6 | 22-Feb-04 at 7:40 am | Permalink
What I was celebrating was the fact that this is the first time such a large public act of civil disobedience (or really, isn’t it “defiance”?) took place, especially with the support of the Mayor of a major city.
I don’t believe that “progress/change” can only be demonstrated by laws getting passed. There are things that must happen before laws can be passed, and when it comes to something like civil rights, and equality issues which go against what is “normal” every time a demonstration, or a ruling that is not against that cause should be celebrated as a victory. This is a victory the way that a person climbing a vertical rockface grabbing a handhold is a victory. Every step towards what I feel would be equality for all kinds of human-beings would count.
And, the “attitudes” that you mention haven’t really changed. Maybe the attitude and courage of the San Francisco Mayor who allowed the marriages to begin and continue… but public opinion hasn’t changed much in the last 15 years or so as far as I know. But honestly, I think that public opinion or the “popular vote” should not be considered as deeply on issues related to discrimination, civil rights, etc.
maruchan | 22-Feb-04 at 9:19 am | Permalink
So to you, this is a “yeah, we did something” victory, rather than “yeah, we won?” Fair enough, that makes sense to me. I got the impression that it was the latter case…